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Bldrk
08-11-03, 19:26
hier ausm US Forum:

wenn das wahr is würde es wohl die Verzögerung erklären.


"
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=45229

It's an anonymous post, don't know if it's true, but it's quite interesting.


Chris was hired 2 1/2 months ago there so it's not exactly news. The real issue is that last week Ubisoft delayed Farcry because the multiplayer was in such a sorry state. To make this look like a good thing, they are trying to make it seem like they hired Chris to make the multiplayer better when in fact he was already working there and the publisher simply rejected their milestone.

The real problem with multiplayer is that the original multiplayer programmer had no multiplayer programming experience. While he is a very smart guy, the system he designed is fundamentally flawed. It tries to approach the problem as "Send the entire game world x times a second and simply set the client to that state." In a 0 ping enviroment that would work. However, experienced multiplayer programmers know that you have to use interpolation and extrapolation, as well as sending data contextually rather than simply a world dump. As a result, the net code has no mechanism to hide lag and requires server feedback on all actions (even though where it is not necessary, such as aiming). Also, because so much of the multiplayer is scripted you lack the kind of low level control necessary to implement this. This is all part of the core design, which unfortunately is so pervasive that the multiplayer is unfixable short of throwing it all away and starting over from scratch.

Another problem with the core design is that it takes inherently so much processing power that at 6 players you generate 60 ping. Past 60 ping the game is unplayable. So even on a LAN with an effective 0 ping, you have a 6 player limit.

This may not have been so bad had the management been better. If they had hired an experienced multiplayer programmer as an consultant to assist with the original multiplayer programmer, for example, perhaps things could have been turned around. Unfortunately, (among other things), they p*ssed off the original MP programmer off to the point where he quit (about 4 months ago). To make up for this, other programmers were diverted from other parts of the code. None of them had any multiplayer programming experience. Those of you who are experienced in the industry are probably nodding your heads now. As we all know, dumping programmers into an already late project, ESPECIALLY into foreign code they are not qualified to work on, isn't going to get the project done sooner. The Crytek management took exactly this route with predictable results.
"

Bldrk
08-11-03, 19:26
hier ausm US Forum:

wenn das wahr is würde es wohl die Verzögerung erklären.


"
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=45229

It's an anonymous post, don't know if it's true, but it's quite interesting.


Chris was hired 2 1/2 months ago there so it's not exactly news. The real issue is that last week Ubisoft delayed Farcry because the multiplayer was in such a sorry state. To make this look like a good thing, they are trying to make it seem like they hired Chris to make the multiplayer better when in fact he was already working there and the publisher simply rejected their milestone.

The real problem with multiplayer is that the original multiplayer programmer had no multiplayer programming experience. While he is a very smart guy, the system he designed is fundamentally flawed. It tries to approach the problem as "Send the entire game world x times a second and simply set the client to that state." In a 0 ping enviroment that would work. However, experienced multiplayer programmers know that you have to use interpolation and extrapolation, as well as sending data contextually rather than simply a world dump. As a result, the net code has no mechanism to hide lag and requires server feedback on all actions (even though where it is not necessary, such as aiming). Also, because so much of the multiplayer is scripted you lack the kind of low level control necessary to implement this. This is all part of the core design, which unfortunately is so pervasive that the multiplayer is unfixable short of throwing it all away and starting over from scratch.

Another problem with the core design is that it takes inherently so much processing power that at 6 players you generate 60 ping. Past 60 ping the game is unplayable. So even on a LAN with an effective 0 ping, you have a 6 player limit.

This may not have been so bad had the management been better. If they had hired an experienced multiplayer programmer as an consultant to assist with the original multiplayer programmer, for example, perhaps things could have been turned around. Unfortunately, (among other things), they p*ssed off the original MP programmer off to the point where he quit (about 4 months ago). To make up for this, other programmers were diverted from other parts of the code. None of them had any multiplayer programming experience. Those of you who are experienced in the industry are probably nodding your heads now. As we all know, dumping programmers into an already late project, ESPECIALLY into foreign code they are not qualified to work on, isn't going to get the project done sooner. The Crytek management took exactly this route with predictable results.
"

Bldrk
08-11-03, 19:39
hm ein interessanter bericht.

das kann man halt glauben oder nicht.
ich könnte mir vorstellen es stimmt. haben sie eben mist gebaut.

vielleicht arbeiten sie auch simultan an den patches für den netcode hahahahahha

...Das Beständigste ist die Veränderung...

Bldrk
08-11-03, 20:27
Ich versteh nicht genug (eigentlich garnix) vom Programmieren, kann also nicht sagen ob das realistisch ist, wäre aber wenigstens ne Erklärung.

mfg F4TE


<center>
Der Optimist glaubt, daß dies die beste aller möglichen Welten ist.

Der Pessimist befürchtet, daß das der Wahrheit entspricht.


"Optimismus ist die Weltsicht der Möder und Skrupellosen":Aquanox2
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Bldrk
09-11-03, 15:57
hmmm,
kann schon sein, kann selber etwas c++,
das schwere ist, die waffen auszubalancieren, die bewegungsgeschwindigkeit etc.

das größere problem in multiplayer sind aber die levels.
is echt schwer keine unfairen stellen zu übersehen, bei mods wie counterstrike kann man das am feedback der community eh noch rel. mit der zeit verbessern.
wenn es aber ein vollpreisspiel is, wäre es gut, wenn beim verkauf alle levels stimmen und funktionieren.


Veni Vidi Vici

Bldrk
10-11-03, 01:31
Naja, also, da ich bissle was von Programmieren versteh erklär ich das obige mal. Also der Programmierer hat den MP so programmiert das jede Sekunde einmal die Infos der kompletten Spielewelt (Ob sie nun benötigt werden oder nicht) an die jeweiligen Clienten/Server sendet. Da das nicht sehr Sinnvoll ist und auch viel Internetbandbreite frisst wird das jetzt überarbeitet. Im jetztigen Zustand braucht jede Aktion ne reaktion bzw. rückmeldung vom Server, sogar das Zielen...

Jetzt werden sie halt versuchen das in nen richtigen MP umzucoden, das ständig nur die benötigten Dateien gesendet werden, um den Ping niedrig zu halten damit richtig flüssiges Spielen möglich ist (afaik mit bis zu 32 spielern).

Naja man wird sehen was drauß wird, ich hoff nur die können Q1 2004 einhalten, weil der Programmierer der jetzt für den MP zuständig ist, kennt sich im Quellcode nicht aus, muss sich also erst einarbeiten...

http://www.ofp-center.com/farcry_logo.jpg (http://farcry.gamigo.de/)

Bldrk
10-11-03, 10:16
wäre vielleicht ein vorteil wenn der zuständige programmierer ein wenig counterstrike oder q3a gespielt hätte. dann würde er
vielleicht eher wissen wie sehr es auf den netcode ankommt.
aber ich finde das ist mal ne positive nachricht, ein spiel mit nem schlechten netcode würde kein halbes jahr durchhalten.
also crytek, lasst euch zeit: der netcode entscheidet /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
MFG
da real Soul]-[unter

Bldrk
10-11-03, 12:16
Ich glaube kaum, dass die beiden Entwickler totale Anfänger sind mit dem FC-Code.

Ich glaube nicht, dass die erst seit letzter Woche bei Crytel arbeiten sondern schon vorher bei Crytek waren und sich einarbeiteten...vielleicht vor nem Monat oder noch länger...

http://www.farcryhq.com/community02/img/banner/468x60.jpg (http://www.farcryhq.com)
über 240 Screenshots und Artworks, alle Downloads, grosses FAQ mit über 40 Fragen und Antworten, sowie immer topaktuelle News!

Greets aus der Schweiz
Vito

Bldrk
10-11-03, 17:46
Gott sei dank hat Ubisoft das früh genug erkannt. Wenn man sich die Beiträge im Link genauer anschaut klingt das so als ob die Entwickler nicht wirklich mit der Ablehnung einverstanden waren. Was meint Ihr dazu?

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Bldrk
10-11-03, 19:42
ehrlich gesagt:
keine ahnung kann schon sein...

Veni Vidi Vici